Increasing Nutrients for Tastier Tomatoes

[gsaxon]

Sher, can you elaborate a little bit on how much extra nutrients you add to your AG tomato projects? I was wondering why my tomatoes have no taste at all.

Thanks!

[Sher]

Jan 17, 2021 13:33:34 GMT -5 gsaxon said:

Sher , can you elaborate a little bit on how much extra nutrients you add to your AG tomato projects? I was wondering why my tomatoes have no taste at all.

Thanks!

I get them over 900 ppm at least. They are supposed to run at least 1400 ppm, but I am afraid to go over 1000 on our small varieties, although it might make them taste even better if I did.

I started reading up on and experimenting after being horrified over my first crop of bland, awful tomatoes.

Wait till they start putting on fruit before boosting them that high because it will kill a young plant.

[gsaxon]

Sher, sorry for my ignorance. Can you tell me what ppm means?  I have two tomato plants in an AG Bounty. I currently use the AG recommended nutes, 12 ml, every two weeks. 

[Sher]

Jan 17, 2021 17:58:46 GMT -5 gsaxon said:

Sher , sorry for my ignorance. Can you tell me what ppm means?  I have two tomato plants in an AG Bounty. I currently use the AG recommended nutes, 12 ml, every two weeks. 

gsaxon , it means parts per million. I use Aerogarden nutrients and add Calmag to keep the leaves healthier and to prevent blossom end rot.

This is the ppm meter I use. It has proved very accurate to me, and the price is right.

I don't worry about ppm on anything but tomatoes to boost the flavor. The recommended AG nutrients work fine for most things.

[gsaxon]

Thanks Sher. I am going to have to give this a try since it is pointless to grow tomatoes with no flavor. So, do you add the nutes and then test the water using the meter, or do you use the meter in the water to then determine how much nutes to add? Sorry again, but I want to do this right. I appreciate your expertise!

[Sher]

gsaxon, first of all, do not raise the nutrient level way up before the plant starts putting on fruit, or it will kill the plant. But once it starts putting on fruit, you can start increasing the ppm.

You need to know your current ppm so you have a baseline. So you measure the ppm in the tank after a feeding with the recommended amount of nutrients . Then you add 5 ml of AG nutes and stir the water until the new nutrients are well mixed, then measure again to see what the new ppm is.

Watch the plant for 4 or 5 days. If it looks good, then measure your tank's ppm and add another 5 ml. You can add it between feedings at this point.  Continue to increase the ppm slowly at regular intervals.

I also add 5 ml Calmag periodically  to make sure I don't get blossom end rot, and it is also good for the leaves. This will also increase your ppm.

I find 900 ppm is when our cherry tomatoes start tasting like tomatoes, and 950 ppm adds more flavor.

The charts say mature tomato ppm should start at 1400, but I am afraid to go anywhere near that high. I would not go over 1000 until you have more experience and are willing to risk experimenting and maybe killing the plant

And please understand I am not an expert! I am learning along with everyone else and I make mistakes!

If anyone else has anything to add, I would appreciate it.

[clumsythumbs]

I have always added the AG recommended nutes for tomatoes and peppers, and they taste great to me. This time around, I am "experimenting" with adding CalMag. The first time I grew tomatoes in my Ultra (Spring 2019), I wanted to follow the AG recommended levels and see how I did before I tweaked. 

Your strategy, Sher sounds like a great one! I think doing anything/everything gradually, waiting to see results and the continuing/adjusting is the best way to find out what is optimal for your set up. 

I will say my peppers in AG versus in dirt were quite a bit different. My peppers in dirt had a lot more flavor (and spicier) this could be from different nutrients or could have been from differences in heat. This past summer we got a lot of hot days and the peppers (and tomatoes) really loved it. 

[gsaxon]

Thanks so much for the advice, Sher. I am going to be ordering the meter today. My plants are already producing red tomatoes, but have absolutely no flavor at all. I think I am going to give this a try, but I may start a new garden from scratch and use this advice from the start. 

[gsaxon]

clumsythumbs, I totally agree that my jalapeños in my AG are not quite as spicy as my peppers in my outdoor garden. The AG peppers are quite tasty, but just not as spicy. It is very hard to compare the variables with outdoor gardening since outdoor gardens have so many more variables in my opinion. It was very hot this summer and I probably had the best crop of jalapeños that I have had in 20 years. 

[Shawn]

I am surprised to hear that peppers in AG are not as spicy.  I have had the opposite results.  I shared some seeds last summer with my friend who grew the same ones as I had and she told me mine were much much hotter.  I also notice that looking at descriptions my peppers always seem to be hotter then stated.

Maybe it is the variety?  Vendor?  My water LOL ?

[gsaxon]

That is interesting Shawn. I grew Jalapeño M peppers from thesseedplant.com. I started them in my AG in April of 2020 and then transplanted them to my outdoor garden in May of 2020. When I harvested them, they were super hot. However, I left one plant inside in my AG harvest, and it was not as hot. The plant did get too tall fro my AG Harvest, so I had to hook up some extra lights so that it would get enough light. I guess that is the fun in what we do. Try something new and we are always in for some surprises, both good and bad!

[cf]

I'm glad I found this thread because I have questions. I'm using an AG Harvest. I have no idea how I would measure PPM in adding the nutrients that came with my unit. I have a tomato plant with fruit on it and they are growing bigger by the day. Later I also started a second tomato plant which is almost as tall but leggy. It has no fruit on it or flowers yet.

On the 15th, it was time to add nutrients. I added 6.5 ml of nutrients and I don't recall why I didn't add the full eight. The big tomato plant looked like it wanted something so I added another one and a half milliliters for a total of eight that I should have added on the 15th, and it's seemed happier. But I don't know if I should be upping the amount because of this thread and I'm seeing about 20 tomatoes at various sizes and many many flowers still yet to turn into tomatoes.

If adding more nutes would improve the taste of my tomatoes on the big plant but risk being too much for the newer tomato plant, that's what I would choose. I want these tomatoes from the first plant to be good since that plant is so far along, nicely sized and shaped, and looks very healthy.

I would much appreciate if somebody would give me some guidance based on my AG being a Harvest model. Based on what I'm seeing here, it sounds like I should be adding more. I don't have a PPM meter and don't even know how I would use one. But I'm sure many other newbies who have started the AG venture with a Harvest model likely don't either and we have all been operating on the notion that 8 mm is right for a six-pod model like a Harvest.

[Sher]

cf ,that is a hard question to answer without knowing your ppm. I do not want to be responsible for damaging your plants.

When my Harvest tomatoes are actively fruiting, I add 10 ml of AG nutrients.

You should definitely be using at least 8 at this stage.

If they look okay after adding 8, wait a few days, then add another ml.

If they still look healthy, then try 10 at the nest feeding if you want to try it.

Or you can just leave it at 8 and see if you like how your tomatoes taste.

[cf]

Thank you Sher, I totally understand your hesitance. But that was my leaning also. I'm assuming this may even be a bit late to be counting on additional nutrients to change the taste of the tomatoes, but for all I know it still would. I'm going to add another milliliter now and watch it for a day or two, then see. Normally I'm scheduling the 1st for R&R and the 15th for just adding nutes but it just seems like a good plan to add some now.

Thanks, I will let you know if anything really weird happens. Meanwhile, since I haven't been using more than 8 ml and for part of the time maybe a bit less, have I blown it taste-wise of tomatoes? The biggest ones are about an inch across in diameter.

Here's a today's photo...

[Sher]

Those are beautiful tomatoes, cf!

No, you haven't blown it. They respond quickly to an increase in nutes.

[Shawn]

They are looking good.  Nice way to cover those open holes too

[cf]

Sher, thank you! They are definitely beautiful to me but all I did was follow instructions and try to sense if they need something, and then try to guess what the heck it is. I will say that I have carefully examined any leaves that block light to any tomatoes or groups of flowers, and unless the light blocking leaves are in short supply on their particular stems, I've cut them off. I've been pretty judicious about that.

Shawn, after trying various lids of jars or bottles which have gotten pushed off the holes sometimes even by the plants themselves, I discovered that regular-mouth size mason jar lids actually JUST fit across the deck, lined up in a row in any direction, so there isn't a millimeter to spare, so that between the very tiny rim around the AG deck and the distance between holes, they hold one another in place so they can't get pushed off. It's such a tight fit that to remove one you have to lift it up, it won't slide anywhere because another mason jar lid is in the way. Plus they are flat so that low branches can't nudge them off the holes. And their beveled edges curve down so there aren't any little places where light can sneak through. Just thrilled with that discovery.

[cf]

Sher, you said you were not confident adding more than 1,000ml nutes to your fruiting tomato plants, so I wanted to let you know that my "HM Digital EZ" TDS meter arrived yesterday and it says it is factory calibrated so I am just assuming it is accurately set. My water tested low, this is after several days since I did the R&R adding 10ml nutes. I added nutes bringing it up to 800 and something ppm and then checked it again this afternoon. It was down in the low 700s so after adding more water because the plant had really sucked up a ton of that also, I added I think close to 5 ml more and then it tested 1110 ppm. So that's a bit above your 1000 ml you mentioned and I will let you know if I see anything in the way of a complaint exhibited. It did seem to me that the chart numbers seem awfully high so like you, I would be nervous about jumping it up to 1400, the chart's minimum as I recall. I was shooting for 1000 ml but I'm not too worried. I'll take its reading tomorrow again and see what it is after 24 hours, just out of curiosity.

What I'm wondering is that I've been noticing some of my flowers... The inside of them looked like dried straw. Today, less so. Is it possible that adding the nutrients yesterday and bringing the reading up to 800 and something could change that? Especially that quickly?

[Sher]

Yes, it could act that quickly.

I wouldn't worry about 1100 ppm. If the plant is fully mature, it should be fine.

I have gone over 1000 before. 1000 is just my personal comfort zone! No scentific reason for it.

[cf]

Well that's good to know! Thanks.

As for the plant being fully mature, I'm now seeing what they mean when they say it might be better to only put one tomato plant in a harvest size machine. At the far end, on January 10th, I put in a second tomato pod. And it is being crowded and still has no flowers on it so I think it is stunted. Obviously I'm favoring the fruiting one so I will have to see how things go.

Meanwhile, I noticed in another thread that you bought a different brand TDS meter for the same price range as mine. I think it had the word Forest in its brand name. My daughter will be getting one at some point fairly soon and my only complaint about the one I have is small screen readout, not backlit. It's also too wide to fit into a pod hole, I need to use the wider watering opening. And I need to press hold in order to see the temperature at all. Is yours more convenient than that?