5Gallon DWC with circulation and resivoure bucket

[airscapes]

I am obsessing about something and Google is not helping me.. I hope some of you have grown larger peppers or tomato's in buckets and have an idea of how aggressive the root ball gets..  I know what my soil grown plants do and it is huge..  Here is the real or imagined issue.

With the recirculation there is a 1 1/2 pvc pipe that allows the water to flow back to the resivoure causing a constant motion of the nutrient water.  My quandary is which return option should I use in the grow bucket.  Do I just leave the straight pipe, 45 degree elbow tilled down to the bottom of the bucket, or a Tee connection.   The real or imagined issue would be if the roots grow into the return blocking the flow.  I will only have a 2" inspection hole in the top of the lid and would have to work through that to clear any blockage.   

I like the 45 as it would allow water from the very bottom to return more easily.. or so it would seem in my minds eye. The Tee would give 2x to return area at least as the ends of the pipe.  The open pipe is how I see all the bucket systems that are sold.. so not sure it really matters.  The water level will be as it is in any DWC just at the bottom of the cage.. so not sure this will ever be a thing.. 

Any input welcome .. including "your over engineering this thing!" 



  

[maskedsonnet]

I’m afraid I’ve never done DWC before, but I found this website: www.pepperinfo.com/2019/03/update-on-hlg-plant/

The person who wrote the post is actually reviewing a grow light but they lift the plant out of the DWC bucket to show the roots and it’s a pretty huge mass.

[maskedsonnet]

Actually I jest went back and re-read, they transplanted that pepper plant from 27-gallon tote to a 5-gallon bucket, the roots maybe just grow to the space they’ve got?

[airscapes]

Actually most of what we do on the forum can be considered DWC.. AG is basically a DWC.. it is not drip, not film.. it is a bucket of water with bubbles and recirculatory..  

[Sher]

Apr 11, 2021 21:51:47 GMT -5 airscapes said:

Actually most of what we do on the forum can be considered DWC.. AG is basically a DWC.. it is not drip, not film.. it is a bucket of water with bubbles and recirculatory..  

I would disagree with that, airscapes .

DWC has an air pump pumping constant air bubbles into the water. The water actually looks like it's boiling.

Aerogardens are a lot closer to a vertical nutrient film technique. (Not aeroponics, as Aerogarden advertises,)

[ERR0R1755]

I can't speak for older (pre-LED) models or for the Farm, but the old (2019-2020?) Sprout is the closest thing to DWC, although it's more of an inefficient DWC design than anything.

The Harvest and Bounty would probably fall under drip hydroponics, and the new (2021) Sprout doesn't fall into any category that I know of, since it uses a little fountain to aerate the water and that doesn't drip on plants or bubble.

As far as I'm aware, there aren't any AG models yet that use other methods (wicking, NFT, ebb and flow, etc) aside from maybe the Herbie, which I don't remember much about but I know it had a weird design. Nothing uses aeroponics either.

[Sher]

A slow running, falling stream of nutrient solution, is vertical nft.  That's also what the Harvests, Bountys and Farms use.

I don't know about the Sprout as I don't have one.

But I wouldn't say that "most of what we do on the forum is DWC."

Not that it really matters. Aerogardens work! 

[airscapes]

Sorry, did not mean to offend anyone.. From what I could see of how the AG work it looked like a water resivoure an pump and some have bubblers.  Not knowing the history of all the models I should not have made the direct comparison.
From what I have read there are 6 main types of systems and many variants  and hybrids of each.
 www.epicgardening.com/hydroponic-systems/

[airscapes]

I am getting close but need help with some feedback on some design/running details

This is for a single tomato plant which is currently in a 5qt bubble bucket, in the 5 gallon bucket lid, in an AG cage and has a well developed root system probably 12" or longer.

The double bucket systems has a 4in air stone in the grow and resivoure bucket, a fountain pump feeding the grow bucket and a 
1 1/2 PVC return.  The buckets are in the ground to try and keep them cool.  Air is provided by General hydroponics duel diaphragm pump in a water proof, fan cooled, sound deadened hush box.

I just created a nozzle for the water being pumped into the grow bucket.  The initial thought after looking at DWC Undercurrent systems where the water just circulates.  Most of the recirculating systems have multiple buckets not just 2..
With just 2 buckets the water is being pumped into one of the them, so I put the pump in the reservoir away from the roots and send the water into the grow bucket.  The nozzle will cause the water to  rain down on the roots that are above the water line.

So my questions are, how much air space should I leave below the cage.  My thought is 3 inches which would put me at a water capacity of 6 gallons.  7 Gallons is about an inch higher and 8 Gallon is just below or touching the cage bottom.

With the incoming water wash I  would assume I can leave more space for air.. 
Or I can rotate that nozzle to miss the hanging roots and raise the water level higher.   Not sure what way to go.. May add a heater to try and keep the water at no less than 72 degrees.
Please I need some freed back on the nozzle water level, even if you are just guessing..

Buckets being set
 


Air pump in box
 

Water flow into Grow bucket with nozzle




6 Gallon water level



7 Gallon water Level


This short video shows the buckets ate 8Gallons but I think with the wash I would want more air space.. 

[Shawn]

I am of no help to you on this.  But you have an interesting set up there. 

[airscapes]

The ones in the dirt are a lot less work and stress, so far!!! 
I will be inserting a plant soon, just trying to get up the nerve.. I think I am going to drop the water level to 6 gallons which will be about 6" below the lid and 3" below the bottom of the cage.  The water return wash is on one side leaving 6" of dryish air space on the other side.    Seems drowning is more of and issue then not enough water.  I have wilted 2 different plants when changing water and and the air stone was not in the same place after the change.  This is with water at the bottom of the cage. 

Water still get rather cold at night (60s), not sure that is an issue, other than slows growth.  I do have an aquarium heater on it's way.. thought I would set that at 74 degrees since that is the lowest the heater will go.. Inside the house the water temps flux between 70 and 78 with lights and sun during the day.. so 74 should bee ok and in another couple weeks the heater will not be needed at all.. 90s are here already in SE PA.. 

[airscapes]

Plant has been put into the the bucket!  The small bucket water temp was about 90 degrees so I set it on a tray with some ice water to try and cool it down a bit.  There was about a 5 degree difference so not sure if that is enough to shock the plant.. will go look in an hour or so if I can refrain.. 

I tried to match EC and ph as best I could,  using Dyna-Bloom at a rate of about 12 ml per guessed gallon and Cal-Magic 2ml per gallon (assuming 7 gallons of water) . This  matched the ec and ph of the small  bucket water I changed yesterday fairly close.

[airscapes]

just checked he is looking happy as a clam!  Will see in the morning.. water temp will be about 60 then.. 

[Sher]

Looks good!

[airscapes]

Looks very happy this morning readings ec 2.11 ph 5.83 (right where I want it with no up/down as of yet)  temp 73.4
Last night I realized that the screw-on lid on the resivoure is air tight. I have the holes where the cord and airline enter sealed with  some HVAC putty and the air pressure is not escaping very well.  So drilled a hole near the top and stuck a one way air valve in the hole.  This works but still causes too much back pressure so will have figure something out to let the air escape and keep the light and bugs out

[airscapes]

It's been raining since yester afternoon and we have gotten almost 3" of rain (had a couple buckets out side drying out.. before it rained) and not stopping till Monday.   Got a little water in the system though the plant opening but a more important test that occurred by accident is I left the power unplugged last night after taking readings.   I specifically left several inches of air space (Like Kratky method) to hopefully prevent drowning if the power failed, and  All is well!   Next thing I found was I should add  an additional air vent.  When I created my air vents in the buckets (to let the air out that is being pumped in) I used a special fabric to cover the vent hole to keep critters out.. The rain had kicked a lot of dirt up on them and with the system off I guess they were now letting enough air out when I turned it on.. water was being pushed into the resivoure bucket (saw the level rise)  Anyway that is a simple fix and probably would not have happened if the system had been running.  Plant is getting too much nitrogen using the Dyna-Grow Bloom fertilizer.  I have ordered a 3 part commercial Fertilizer that is sold to green houses and am also contemplating an auto fill/feed 3rd bucket but need to do some research on a valve.  Once the mosquitos get going, I am not going to want to go out there 2 times a day, every day, to mess with it. The other factor is with the fertilizer I bought,  has to be premixed as it is powered and  you don't use much.  Once it is filed and correct, I was told by the company I can water at 1/2 rate with such a small system.  I would rather mix a bucket to 1/2 strength and let it auto water than manually do it.  It is drinking about 3qts a day..      
My inside plant is in the same condition, big fat trunk and branches but not many flowers... not enough potassium. 
This is what I bought plus the calcium nitrate and magnesium Tomato Fromula. Still need to get a larger amount of  ph Up/Down depending on what this particular formula does.  So far I need to UP the ph with my current food and the UP requires a LOT more than Down to make a difference.  Well looks like I rambled on a bit.. better go get some dry cloths on and get to work! Have a nice one !!


Will be starting another post once I get my inside tomato's new Tub completed.. 

[airscapes]

Last night I drained/flushed and refilled my buckets with full strength formula.  It had been about 5 days and I have been told by both owners of both hydroponic stores I have visited, that weekly flush and fill is the way to go.  It was rather time consuming last night mixing 8 gallons of solution then lugging the buckets from the basement to the garden.  I am trying to figure out how/where I will do this as once the mosquitos get going I don't want to be out there for an hour messing with water changes if I can figure something out.   Carrying that water up and out I felt like that one kid in the Kung Fu  movies who can't carry the buckets of water up the mountain!!  I had to stop and google "how much does 4 gallons of water weigh.. 33.77lbs to be precise.. times 2.. Getting too old for that kind of thing every week....   Anyway, I think I have the process fully documented so I end up with the same ec/ph in each batch.  This formula is much better for tomatoes than Dyna-grow, the change in growth and the number of flower clusters in the past 5 days even in the cold and rain has been noticeable.  The plants in the ground which are the same age are smaller with much thinner stems and few leaves, but with more flowers and  tomatoes.  The Bloom did not have enough K (potassium) for a mature indeterminant tomato plant.  

Soil plant on left Hydro on right both are same age, it is obvious the hydro has had too much nitrogen and will need to be pruned a bit once it starts climbing.



Hydro plant



 Tomatoes on the soil plant in above image



Installed first grid support even though it will be another week before anything is tall enough to be tied




    

[airscapes]

Plant is doing really well, photos were posted in the raised bed thread the other day.. just wanted to note here in 90degree and over weather this plant is sucking down over 2 gallons of water between 8am and 8pm.. really thing if I do this again I will use a very large tote (20-30 gallon) for the grow bucket ..  

[Shawn]

They really are doing well.  You have the gift for outdoor gardening.

[airscapes]

Thanks Shawn!  I give the majority of the credit to Mother Nature!  Growing plants in the environments they were designed to grow and live in, is much  simpler and less work the hydroponics. 

My dirt tomatoes yell at me all the time.. "Hey stupid.. if you had put that plant in the ground instead of a bucket, you wouldn't be out here changing nutrient every week sweatin like a pig, not to mention checking levels and watering it 2 time a day!  Wait till the mosquitos get bitin.. you'll be bitchin and moanin and it is your onw dumb fault!"  

I just snap off a couple branches and pinch off their new shoots when they get nasty!