Tomato Tub with air and pump

[airscapes]

This is a Burpee Early 4th of July indeterminant tomato plant I had growing in a 5qt bucket. It is suffering edema due to that lack of food in the tiny bucket.. From what I am learning when the plant can not get enough of what it needs it starts sucking as much water as it can to get the needed nutrients.  This water can not be transpired especially in the house, and the leaf cells swell and burst.. Hopefully not it is in it's new tub with 4 gallons of water circulating, and professional tomato formula fertilizer it will recover and stop sucking up so  much water.  The hope is I can get it to grow horizontally along the wall but I think it is going to end up just being a big bush on the top of the dresser.. Not sure if it will grow towards the light but that is the idea I am trying.

Mixing the fertilizer was  not as bad as I thought but certainly a lot more time and energy consuming than a 15ml squirt of the liquid stuff.  Time will tell if it is better or worse, but I think it is less expensive.

The tub is a 15x20x7 bus tub.  I would have liked to get the Rubber Maid version which was a bit larger but they did not stock lids for it at my local store.   
The tub had to accept the bucket top I had made for the 5qt pail and I wanted a good amount of access to the inside when in use.  All parts are custom 3d printed frames are glued and screwed to the top which made the lid very stiff and solid.  Pump is just a $11 HF fountain pump.


Before glue




Nozzle front 


Nozzle mounted




Nozzle mounted side view 




Tub running



Tomato roots
 


Tom in the tub




Short clip of pump running

[Sher]

Interesting!

[elainev]

Awesome project and I'm so impressed that you can print components. I'll watch carefully because I want to grow a tomato this winter. I'm new to hydroponics, but have used EarthBoxes for years. Isn't an EarthBox a perfect growing pot? Just keep nutrients in the bottom instead of using a fertilizer strip? I'm tempted to try that.

EarthBoxes potting mix require Dolomite (lime) but the hydroponics never mention that. Guess the Dolomite wouldn't be required if I experimented growing hydroponically in an EarthBox? Lots to learn.

[airscapes]

Thanks elainev !  One of the reasons I purchased a 3D printer back in 2018 was I wanted to be able to make all those stupid little do-hickies and watchyamacallits you just can't make out of wood or go out and buy.  The problems are, you have to learn a CAD software to do the design work to make the model and then learn the Slicing software that the printer uses.. Once you emerge from the 6 months to a year black hole of a learning curve, it starts to get fun!  The water nozzle is very clunky looking and took about 2 days of redesigns and proto types to get what ended up working.  I would make a couple changes if done again but it works and that is all that counts.

I am not sure that growing a tomato indoors, above the Mason Dixon line, in the winter, is really worth while, other than to say I DID IT!    If I was like most of the sane folks here, I would grow a small determinant cherry tomato, but the wife won't eat the cherry tomato's so this is why I am doing it this way..  The project  would be much simpler if I had room for a grow tent which I think is going to be needed in the winter to keep the temp up in the mid 70s, or even a place where it could be on the floor and I would have 8' of vertical space.. 

Thanks for looking!
Doug
 
Too much light shining on my monitor so dropped the reflective cover on the front side.. There is a small fan at the window end moving air over the plant.

[elainev]

May 30, 2021 9:09:52 GMT -5 airscapes said:

. There is a small fan at the window end moving air over the plant.

I'm thinking of searching for a small, oscillating fan for my 24 farm xl. Everything I have grown so far seems so "very tender". Even the lettuce isn't as "strong nor crispy" as I think lettuce should be. Do you think the fan makes stronger plants? It seems to me that it would. When I took an entire tray of tomatoe plants outside to harden, they got much more "tough looking" - thicker leaves.

[airscapes]

May 30, 2021 10:11:03 GMT -5 elainev said:

May 30, 2021 9:09:52 GMT -5 airscapes said:

. There is a small fan at the window end moving air over the plant.

 Do you think the fan makes stronger plants? 

Yes, that is what I have read in more than one place.  The lettuce I have grown on the dresser has not be too limp and the fan has been blowing it as well.  I was going to grow lettuce to eat, but we really don't eat much, and for what it cost and what we eat, I don't think it is something I will peruse in the future.  I have about 10 head in the bed outside just to see what would happen and that feels about the same as what I had inside with a fan if that helps.  The fan I have is not oscillating but probably should be.. it is just a personal desk fan that has a usb plug.. May need to upgrade as this plant gets larger.

[airscapes]

I am still having issues with edema and it is moving up to higher branches.. After more searching for answers I am making more changes.. breaking the cardinal rule of trouble shooting by changing more than one thing at a time.. 
Things that cause edema in tomato plants: Nutrient/ph imbalance, high humidity lack of air movement (transpiration), roots too hot compered to plant(plant thinks it is raining so drinks a lot more water than needed), not enough UV and blue light and too much water in root zone.

I have 2 small fans running on low, so maybe need more air.. 
My ec levels were still on the low side  as this was my first mix of the new nutrient and I used level tsp's of food.  ec down to 2.06 form a start of 2.30 2 days ago and should have been 2.50 which includes source water making the mix 2.0, which was what I was shooting for.  
Water temp at night is over 75 by end of day and room air drops once lights are off  to 71.   

Yesterday I added a UV (65w black light used at Halloween) This  morning I added more of the 3 nutrients in the proper ratio and got he ec up to 2.43  with a ph of 6.24 (shooting for 6.2) and I also remove the pump from the spay nozzle.  The pump now just send that water from one end to the other in a circular motion.   I also added a timer to the pump so it will run for 30 minutes every 2 hours to try and lower water temp.  I have a hard time believing the pump make much heat but the internet claims it does.. will see.

So if I still have issues, I guess I will try a frozen bottle of water in the tub before bed.. after that I am out of ideas..  Same plant in same food, with water spray, outside is thriving with no sign of edema so maybe more fan speed is in order..

[elainev]

Last week, I spent a lot of time researching hydrogen peroxide. Think it might help with edema? It provides more oxygen for roots and that would mean drawing less water (wouldn't it?)

I found one amateur article that said 1 tablespoon 3 % HP to a gallon water helps an in-ground over-watered tomato plant, but I don't think 1 tablespoon would make much difference.

Other sources recommend (just for regular watering) as much as 1/2 cup 3% HP per gallon and to water a sick plant as much as 1 cup 3% HP to 1 gallon water. Depending on the water, hydrogen peroxide lasts about 4 days in the solution.

[airscapes]

I have used  H202  to prevent algae and adding a bit too much 2 tsps per gallon wilted the plant for 24 hours (both times I added too much). Edema is not lack of Oxygen, it is the plant pulling more water than it can transpire to the air.  The water swells the cells and they rupture.  It is not normally fatal and my plants I grow for soil have always gotten it after maturing in pots, in side..  Once moved outside (still in the pots) it clears up.  It may just be the lack of proper air movement, a fan is  not the same as outside, and man made light is not the same as sun.. The other statement I read was some verities are more subjectable than others..  I only ever grow this same verity anymore.  So the trick is to figure out if there is a reason the plant is now sucking more water than it did earlier in it's life or if the fan is just not moving enough air now the plant is larger.  Being I changed every variable today, will be hard to tell what fixed it, if it stops happening.. 

 

[campingcorgis]

I'm betting they will be better tomorrow! 

[airscapes]

Well I took one more step this evening.. When I took my readings and added water, I added it as ice.. Dropped the water temp from 77 to 68 and so far so good, will check at 11 after the lights have been off for an hour or 2 and air temp is down to 71..  That is when I saw the new blisters last night.   The first tomato that is on the plant is growing nicely already 1/2" in diameter.  I am way behind this year, normally when I set them out in the ground they have 1" tomatoes on them, but they are just getting flowers now..  I won't remove the first flower as directed by one green house sites blog.. I like my midd/end of June first taste.. will be July 4th or later I think.. 

[elainev]

I''ve read that advice too and have seen it  in YouTube videos as welll ----->

airscapes said:

"... I won't remove the first flower as directed by one green house sites blog..."

My outside tomatoes are at the flowering state and yes, if the plant main stem looks weak and small, I remove the first blossom to put the growth back into the plant. If the plant looks strong and healthy, I leave the first blossom. Like everything else about growing -- depends on the circumstances, doesn't it? I guess we're supposed to learn everything we can, and then do what we think is right.

In an earlier post you said 2 teaspoons 3% hydrogen peroxide in a gallon of water killed a plant. I'm amazed  by that.

About 3 weeks ago, I put all my houseplants that were in self-watering pots (5 of them, various plants) in a solution of 1/2 cup HP per gallon water. They're all alive and well.

About 4 days ago, I watered some very small, tender flower transplants outside in the ground with the same mixture. They're all alive and doing well. Once again, I guess, depends on the circumstances.

HP only lasts about 4 days once it's in solution, so if any of my plants were gonna die they would have done it already. All is well though. Maybe the difference is adding peroxide to nutrients. I didn't do that -- just the peroxide water alone.

[airscapes]

Jun 2, 2021 7:07:21 GMT -5 elainev said:

In an earlier post you said 2 teaspoons 3% hydrogen peroxide in a gallon of water killed a plant. I'm amazed  by that.

About 3 weeks ago, I put all my houseplants that were in self-watering pots (5 of them, various plants) in a solution of 1/2 cup HP per gallon water. They're all alive and well.

No, I said that the amount of 2tsp (10lm) per gallon "Wilted" the plant "for 24 hours", after that it was fine.. I don't want to stock the plants and wilt them for no reason.   And yes it all depends on the circumstance. And yes, we learn what works for us as we experiment.  My grand father always pruned his tomato's but he grew big boys in sandy soil and I don't think fed the properly.. fishguts  and MG.. he was going for a few big tomatoes and his stems as I remember them were always thin compared to what mine look like.   Maybe it was that particular year when I was helping him tie the to the trellis.   I let my early 4th of julys go wild after they reach 4' and reap a huge bounty of smaller than they could be fruit, but that is what the wife likes! 

As of this morning no new edema blisters that I could find.  I have also found the missing ingredient of the formula I am using,  Potassium Nitrate.  It calls for 1/10 tsp per gallon once you have 4 flower clusters and when I bought the other ingredients I did not buy it as they don't sell it in that I could see.  After some searching I found it at a seller that uses walmart as their front end and ordered 1/2 lb.  Later on that day I found out that Spectricide Stump remover is 100% Potassium nitrate used to feed fungus so they eat the stump..  Added that today to both plants, EC and PH is on the money where it should be, even watered this inside plant with full strength solution left from the outside plant first fill.   
 
As a child I did not like gardening much, but I guess I must have leaned something..
Me at about 9 or 10 maybe, with Pop-Pop in the garden, Villas NJ 

[Shawn]

Ha a Jersey boy?

I have pictures like that with my nona in her garden.  Seems like all the pop-pops at that time always wore the white tee's like that as I have tons of pictures with my great grands and grands like those.  And Nona (great grand) and Mom-Mom (grand) would always have a smock or apron on with hankies it their pockets LOL

[airscapes]

Jun 2, 2021 9:53:04 GMT -5 Shawn said:

Ha a Jersey boy?

I have pictures like that with my nona in her garden.  Seems like all the pop-pops at that time always wore the white tee's like that as I have tons of pictures with my great grands and grands like those.  And Nona (great grand) and Mom-Mom (grand) would always have a smock or apron on with hankies it their pockets LOL

No, we are from Delaware County PA just east of Philadelphia..  They retired to the Villas.. as did my wife's grandparents... 
And yes, the white wife beater under shirts (as they are now known as in some circles) were popular.. guess it was lack of AC and big arms.. .Yep Nan always had a shift on in the summer.   No AC, so you had to get as naked as you could!

[elainev]

Got it -- that photo is awesome. I remember my grandfather wearing those undershirts around. Never would go into public with one though. Always used a long sleeved white shirt for that - even in summer.

[Sher]

airscapes , you can but potassium nitrate here.

My go-to formula when I need extra phosphorus or potassium is here.

I also love your photo, too. Brings back lots of memories.

[airscapes]

Yes, I was using the dyna-bloom before switching to the tomato formula.  The PN is ordered, www.walmart.com/ip/Potassium-Nitrate-Powder-KNO3-1-2-Lb/730344998
and also have bought and am using Stump remove 100% PN as it was local.  

[Sher]

Oops! Bad mod. Just was trying to help you find it since you said you couldn't.

[airscapes]

Jun 2, 2021 17:04:48 GMT -5 Sher said:

Oops! Bad mod. Just was trying to help you find it since you said you couldn't.

No no, it is most appreciated!  What was weird was none of the farm supply stores in Lancaster PA area carry it..  I guess it is mostly mixed in with other things to make a single product.. Not sure why they list it as an  added ingredient but I guess the hybrid indeterminant varieties need it as they just keep going and going..