Help! Overnight wilting of both Tatsoi and AG Salad kit!

[pfunnyjoy]

Yesterday, I cut and ate some Tatsoi from the Aerogarden Classic 7, no more than usual, the plants looked fine. The leaves were gorgeous! And tasty!

This morning, I noticed that some leaves had slight blotchy or puffy areas, and some were drooping!



THEN, checking my Harvest Slim Elite, I noticed that leaves on the Deer Tongue lettuce were curling a bit at the edges and also drooping, very similar to the Tatsoi!



House temperature was 66 overnight, thermostat is currently at 67. I vary it during the day, depending on how I feel, but it rarely goes above 68.

Water levels were fine in both, I check daily and top up as needed. They were not remotely low this morning.

Both gardens were due for rinse/refill and nutrients, however, and in fact, the light had come on for the Harvest Slim this morning. So I got right on that, in case that was the issue! But I'm surprised, since it's not like I'd put it off, nor have I had plants do this before.

For the Harvest, my new siphon doesn't fit into the opening, so I unplugged the power and pump cord, took it over to the sink, and lifted the grow deck and set it on a bowl. The roots look fine, they are white and not discolored. They had, however, been growing into the pump filter, I cleaned that of roots. Gave the roots a light trim, just the longest bits, rinsed out the base, refilled it, added nutrients, and one teaspoon of 3% hydrogen peroxide and put the grow deck back. This all got done very quickly, and the drooping happened before, so this was not the cause.

On the Classic 7, I siphoned out the old water, refilled with tap water as a rinse, then siphoned that out, then added my GH Flora series nutrient mix and then the hydrogen peroxide. I did lift the grow deck a little, to look at the roots, but they are under the support struts, and will tear if I lift the deck out completely without cutting it free. I'm not sure if I should attempt to trim or not? 

At any rate, those roots also looked, and felt healthy.

If anyone has any ideas what causes or caused this, I need to know! I was so happy with these gardens, they just looked beautiful, and now I have no idea what I've done wrong!

I'm scared for my little greens!

[pfunnyjoy]

Just wanted to add that I did have a look around under leaves on both gardens to see if I saw any pests, but did not.

[pfunnyjoy]

Another picture. This plant was a bit worse tonight.

[scarfguy]

I don't have a clue.  Since it happened to both AGs, it's clearly environmental.

Have you checked your furnace for carbon monoxide leaks?

[Shawn]

A few questions..

What temp is the water?  If it is warm or hot they will wilt.  Lettuce loves cold water so place a few ice cubes in the bowl.

How much nutes do you put in?  I personally find less is better.  I never put the full amount in but that is just me.

When are you pruning the lettuce?  You should really do it first thing in the am.  This way the open or cut part does not have the lights at full heat on them.

Try raising the lights

[scarfguy]

Another idea...   Are you sterilizing your tools?

Last year, my UV light died and I didn't know it. So I went a week without sterilizing my snips.  A virus ran through 6 pepper plants in a matter of days.

[slw]

Would there happen to be a vent for your heat blowing on them?   That seems strange for 2 gardens at the same time. 

[pfunnyjoy]

Oct 31, 2023 6:07:57 GMT -5 scarfguy said:

I don't have a clue.  Since it happened to both AGs, it's clearly environmental.

Have you checked your furnace for carbon monoxide leaks?

We have carbon monoxide detectors in the house, none have gone off. One is fairly close to the gardens. Besides, the Tatsoi garden in my office is looking beautiful!

[pfunnyjoy]

Oct 31, 2023 8:37:42 GMT -5 Shawn said:

A few questions..

What temp is the water?  If it is warm or hot they will wilt.  Lettuce loves cold water so place a few ice cubes in the bowl.

How much nutes do you put in?  I personally find less is better.  I never put the full amount in but that is just me.

When are you pruning the lettuce?  You should really do it first thing in the am.  This way the open or cut part does not have the lights at full heat on them.

Try raising the lights

I don't have a thermometer, however, the Harvest temp felt quite cool, the Classic 7, cool, but not as cool as the Harvest. The warmest of the bunch is the Tatsoi garden in my office ... which is unaffected and thriving so far.

Nutes: The Harvest is on AG nutes, I have put in 4ml (cap full) for each feeding so far as per the bottle. The garden was 28 days old yesterday.

For the Classic 7, I am using GH Flora series. I hadn't initially located the feeding schedule for that, but based on what I used to do, just used 5ml each of Micro/Grow/Bloom per gallon. Garden was beautiful for 29 days, then boom! Still, it has 7 plants, so I wouldn't have thought that would be too much. AND.... the office Tatsoi garden is getting the same for 2 plants and so far, has no problem. It is, however, 2 days behind this garden.

The difference between the two gardens is that the office Tatsoi is in an airstone Aerogarden, it is 2 days younger, has only TWO plants, not SEVEN, and it has NOT been harvested upon at all yet.

The lettuce was harvested in the evening, so that's good to know about it being better to do in the AM. However, I had already raised the lights by one inch. Perhaps I should do a bit more.

[pfunnyjoy]

Oct 31, 2023 8:41:18 GMT -5 scarfguy said:

Another idea...   Are you sterilizing your tools?

Last year, my UV light died and I didn't know it. So I went a week without sterilizing my snips.  A virus ran through 6 pepper plants in a matter of days.

OK, that's somewhat of a promising thought, because no, I have not. How does one DO that? I for sure never did when I used to Aerogarden, but it's certainly a good idea.

Still, it seems somewhat unlikely. Where would these plants have gotten a virus or disease? I have no houseplants. I have not brought any plants from outdoors inside. The snips are BRAND NEW, and have ONLY been used on these two gardens. The first time, there were no issues.

I suppose seeds could have a virus? If so, the Tatsoi seeds seem unlikely to be guilty, because the office Tatsoi garden is so far unaffected and looks beautiful. Yet, I've never had any virus issues with AG seed pods. Mold once, virus or plant disease, no.

It's a good thought, for sure, it just seems so unlikely.

[pfunnyjoy]

Oct 31, 2023 18:51:32 GMT -5 slw said:

Would there happen to be a vent for your heat blowing on them?   That seems strange for 2 gardens at the same time. 

No, the heat vents are on the other side of the living room. I have a little fan on the gardens, but have also done that for the Tatsoi garden in the office, and it is fine. It is also much closer to a heat vent, but nothing from the vent blows on it directly, as the vent is under my computer desk. Except for the basement, all vents are floor vents.

It did occur to me that perhaps hubby got careless cleaning the stove and perhaps some cleaning chemicals could have blown onto the gardens. This, because the fan position could potentially suck up chemical mist and blow it on the gardens. Though so far, the two red leaf lettuces in the Harvest are NOT affected, so it's still a mystery. I have changed the fan position so that it blows toward the stove now, just on the off chance.

The stove is an electric, glass top. So it's not adding heat when it's off.

The Tatsoi looks worse today. So the rinse and refill haven't helped. I'll give it a few more days, but it's looking like the garden won't come back from whatever bothered it.

I've cut off the affected leaves of the Deer Tongue lettuce, to get them away from the two red leaf lettuces that seem fine. I'm wondering if I should just remove the Deer Tongue from the garden entirely?

[pfunnyjoy]

Here's how the Classic 7 Tatsoi garden (day 28) looks today. It's definitely worse.




And a closeup:




And the 6E+ office Tatsoi garden, day 26 (same nutes, same seeds, small fan on it, same water, if anything, water slightly warmer):




Could the early harvesting of the Classic 7 kitchen Tatsoi impacted it? Or the close spacing? Yet the Harvest Slim lettuce, what with two pods not sprouting, was not super closely spaced. And I've never had issues with harvesting lettuce at 3 weeks before.

I'm still mystified! Keep the ideas coming though, because I really like, and really want to be able to grow Tatsoi!

[slw]

I can't imagine what's causing that.  Sometimes AGing can be frustrating. 

I have tatsoi planted in every pod of a Harvest Elite slim and it's been doing great for a couple of months now.  I have harvested several times (at any time of day) and I use an oscillating fan in that room most days.   I use AG nutes at recommended dosage.

I had a perfectly healthy Iznik cucumber vine a few months ago that was going gang-busters till I added some Kool Bloom.  Next morning it was dead as a doornail. 

I will admit that I never "sterilize" my clippers but I rinse them off occasionally.   I'm a rebel.  

[scarfguy]

Oct 31, 2023 20:18:45 GMT -5 pfunnyjoy said:

Oct 31, 2023 8:41:18 GMT -5 scarfguy said:

Another idea...   Are you sterilizing your tools?

Last year, my UV light died and I didn't know it. So I went a week without sterilizing my snips.  A virus ran through 6 pepper plants in a matter of days.

OK, that's somewhat of a promising thought, because no, I have not. How does one DO that? I for sure never did when I used to Aerogarden, but it's certainly a good idea.

Still, it seems somewhat unlikely. Where would these plants have gotten a virus or disease? I have no houseplants. I have not brought any plants from outdoors inside. The snips are BRAND NEW, and have ONLY been used on these two gardens. The first time, there were no issues.

I suppose seeds could have a virus? If so, the Tatsoi seeds seem unlikely to be guilty, because the office Tatsoi garden is so far unaffected and looks beautiful. Yet, I've never had any virus issues with AG seed pods. Mold once, virus or plant disease, no.

It's a good thought, for sure, it just seems so unlikely.

Having had a virus ravage through my gardens, I'm a conscientious sterilizer. I wash my scissors and UV sterilize them between every plant. The first sterilizer I bought didn't have a "viewing window" so I had no idea the UV light failed and I wasn't sterilizing when I thought I was.  Here is the one I'm using now and can see through the door that the light is working:

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08L4LKD5B

YES! you can very easily get a virus from the seeds.  Since viruses are elusive and may be dormant within a plant, the merchant may not know that they are transmitting a virus with their seeds.  Particularly small seed vendors many of who know nothing about viruses I found out.

Please don't agonize about it. You sound like you are very stressed. Most of us have had unexplained AG failures like this. It drives us nuts.  Just clean your AGs good and start again. Your next success will heal your wounds....  Plant some cascading petunias!  They are lovely!

[pfunnyjoy]

Oct 31, 2023 20:49:27 GMT -5 slw said:

I can't imagine what's causing that.  Sometimes AGing can be frustrating. 

I have tatsoi planted in every pod of a Harvest Elite slim and it's been doing great for a couple of months now.  I have harvested several times (at any time of day) and I use an oscillating fan in that room most days.   I use AG nutes at recommended dosage.

I had a perfectly healthy Iznik cucumber vine a few months ago that was going gang-busters till I added some Kool Bloom.  Next morning it was dead as a doornail. 

I will admit that I never "sterilize" my clippers but I rinse them off occasionally.   I'm a rebel.  

I always wipe mine off after trimming, just not necessarily between gardens, though that may now change!

[pfunnyjoy]

Oct 31, 2023 21:09:29 GMT -5 scarfguy said:

Oct 31, 2023 20:18:45 GMT -5 pfunnyjoy said:

OK, that's somewhat of a promising thought, because no, I have not. How does one DO that? I for sure never did when I used to Aerogarden, but it's certainly a good idea.

Still, it seems somewhat unlikely. Where would these plants have gotten a virus or disease? I have no houseplants. I have not brought any plants from outdoors inside. The snips are BRAND NEW, and have ONLY been used on these two gardens. The first time, there were no issues.

I suppose seeds could have a virus? If so, the Tatsoi seeds seem unlikely to be guilty, because the office Tatsoi garden is so far unaffected and looks beautiful. Yet, I've never had any virus issues with AG seed pods. Mold once, virus or plant disease, no.

It's a good thought, for sure, it just seems so unlikely.

Having had a virus ravage through my gardens, I'm a conscientious sterilizer. I wash my scissors and UV sterilize them between every plant. The first sterilizer I bought didn't have a "viewing window" so I had no idea the UV light failed and I wasn't sterilizing when I thought I was.  Here is the one I'm using now and can see through the door that the light is working:

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08L4LKD5B

YES! you can very easily get a virus from the seeds.  Since viruses are elusive and may be dormant within a plant, the merchant may not know that they are transmitting a virus with their seeds.  Particularly small seed vendors many of who know nothing about viruses I found out.

Please don't agonize about it. You sound like you are very stressed. Most of us have had unexplained AG failures like this. It drives us nuts.  Just clean your AGs good and start again. Your next success will heal your wounds....  Plant some cascading petunias!  They are lovely!

I've added that to my wish list, but it's really not in my budget right now. Do you think wiping the pruners with isopropyl alcohol wipes between gardens would do it?

If it's the seeds, then I don't know how to combat that.

I got the Tatsoi seeds off Amazon, from a vendor called Seed Needs. (Seed Needs, Tatsoi Mustard Seeds for Planting (Brassica narinosa) Single Package of 300 Seeds - Heirloom, Non-GMO & Untreated) But if it's those, then some seeds aren't affected, unless my office Tatsoi garden is doomed and I just don't know it yet. It looks completely thriving at the moment!

I'm trying not to agonize, but it worries me! Like what if it keeps happening? With my spine, it's an effort to clean and sanitize a garden for replanting. Plus the time spent. I can only handle so much in a day.

It's a nope from me on petunias, I've done those in an AG before and they were sticky and I got annoyed by them. Besides, what got me started again was the idea of having more greens to eat and juice. We don't have the freshest produce to buy here, especially in winter.

I'm wondering if I should lift those two Deer Tongue and get them away from the other two lettuces? 

Also wondering if having two gardens back to back in the kitchen was a BAD IDEA? Thing is, no matter where I have gardens, there on the counter, or downstairs in the "south 40" on a table, gardens are going to be close together, though not necessarily back to back.

[scarfguy]

I would think wiping your tools with alcohol between plants would be a prudent idea for all of us.

[scarfguy]

Here's a rather easy to read primer on plant viruses if anybody is interested in learning more:

www.rhs.org.uk/disease/plant-viruses

[pfunnyjoy]

Nov 1, 2023 5:31:49 GMT -5 scarfguy said:

I would think wiping your tools with alcohol between plants would be a prudent idea for all of us.

It's going to be protocol here from now on! And washing hands between gardens! 

It occurred to me this morning that it might be possible to transfer a virus between store produce and Aerogardens. I mean, before harvesting, I'm usually making a salad base, since my harvests so far weren't quite enough for a big salad on their own.

At any rate, I pulled the plug on the Tatsoi garden, and will do so on the Harvest Slim Elite. The red leaf lettuce was more resistant to whatever it is, but I saw the first signs on it today. 

I'll be bleach sanitizing these gardens. Not to mention grow pods and spacers!

But before I do, I might tackle the Classic 7 with some more vinegar on the internal crusties.

[pfunnyjoy]

Nov 1, 2023 8:29:51 GMT -5 scarfguy said:

Here's a rather easy to read primer on plant viruses if anybody is interested in learning more:

www.rhs.org.uk/disease/plant-viruses

That was a good read, thanks!