pfunnyjoy
AGA Bounty
Made more grow room in my office!
Posts: 791 
|
Post by pfunnyjoy on Nov 6, 2023 18:05:19 GMT -5
Hmmm... Those images look like a fungal disease. What do you think, lynnee ? Weird, huh? I googled for things like leaf blotches, leaf spots, and viewed images, but I couldn't find anything that looked quite like this. Obviously, I couldn't go through every leaf picture on the internet, but yeah, I tried searches also involving high PH. I found this below at blog.bluelab.com/signs-that-your-plants-are-struggling-with-incorrect-ph: The only thing that really seems to apply is the wilted leaves bit, as that's what happens next. Outer, older leaves are affected first. The right-hand plant had only the one leaf starting to be affected, and so far, the rest of it looks good. |
|
pfunnyjoy
AGA Bounty
Made more grow room in my office!
Posts: 791
|
Post by pfunnyjoy on Nov 6, 2023 18:11:45 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by lynnee on Nov 6, 2023 23:51:38 GMT -5
Hmmm... Those images look like a fungal disease. What do you think, lynnee ? Could be. They don't look much like edema, which I see all the time on pepper plant leaves, but they might even be that. Edema produces crystals that look like little bugs, but it strikes in odd spots. EDIT: I found a Tatsoi guide online that says: "Diseases that can affect Tatsoi include: Alteneria Leaf Spot, Anthracnose, Black Rot, Club Root, Downy Mildew, Soft Rot." thehomegarden.com/guide/tatsoi/#If I had to vote for one of those, I'd probably favor Downy Mildew. The leaf undersides aren't fuzzy white, but the leaf tops look similar. The disease sounds like something that might thrive in water-grown plants. www.planetnatural.com/pest-problem-solver/plant-disease/downy-mildew/  ANOTHER EDIT: Downy Mildew also affects lettuce. There are many websites that discuss this, but these are good ones. www.rhs.org.uk/disease/lettuce-downy-mildewwww.vegetables.bayer.com/ca/en-ca/resources/agronomic-spotlights/lettuce-downy-mildew.html  |
|
pfunnyjoy
AGA Bounty
Made more grow room in my office!
Posts: 791
|
Post by pfunnyjoy on Nov 7, 2023 2:06:12 GMT -5
It does look a bit like downy mildew, but hard to say.
Just checking the plants tonight before I shut down the computer. Still 7 affected leaves on the left-hand plant, nothing on the right-hand plant. I may, in case it is downy mildew, remove the affected leaves tomorrow. I had held off, not wanting to cut more and possibly further stress the plant, since I'd already cut a few leaves, but I think it has enough healthy-looking leaves left.
I think it's a good sign that I haven't seen much further progression though.
I'm also thinking maybe I should discard the Tatsoi seed, and order a new packet from a different source. Apparently, downy mildew can be seed-borne.
Another possibility is hot water treating the seeds. I was doing some broccoli sprouts in a Mason jar, and it was suggested that a soak in warm water, plus a little apple cider vinegar, and one drop of dish soap (all rinsed afterward) could help prevent problems. And I have to say, that I had no issues with any mold whatsoever. Whether it could help prevent downy mildew, I couldn't say.
|
|
|
|
Post by lynnee on Nov 7, 2023 13:27:35 GMT -5
pfunnyjoy , if it's downy mildew, the plants are goners, so maybe keep the leaves a little longer to see whether they develop white fuzz? I think that I'd do that, unless I wanted to get started on stamping out whatever it is.
|
|
pfunnyjoy
AGA Bounty
Made more grow room in my office!
Posts: 791
|
Post by pfunnyjoy on Nov 7, 2023 16:34:23 GMT -5
pfunnyjoy , if it's downy mildew, the plants are goners, so maybe keep the leaves a little longer to see whether they develop white fuzz? I think that I'd do that, unless I wanted to get started on stamping out whatever it is.  Too late, already removed them. There's been no white fuzz on anything. The previous "late" gardens just wilted, with worsening leaf yellowing, but no fuzz. No serious progression on our problem left-hand plant, though it might be a tad worse. I took off 8 affected leaves, but one only had a very tiny spot. I ate that one. Tasted great. Here they are. Top sides have damage, not much to be seen on the bottom sides, but you can see how they are starting to crinkle a bit at the edges.   And then there's Righty-O, the happier plant, making it look like there's nothing wrong in the garden at all! I only removed one leaf off this plant, an older leaf at the back, but you can still see the front older leaf is present and accounted for.  And Mr. Problem Plant, post trim:  Whole garden:  I'm just going to let them go for a bit, see if they continue to grow, see what happens. Might as well. Water level was slightly down again this morning, so one of them is still drinking. |
|
|
|
Post by lynnee on Nov 7, 2023 19:02:50 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by AnnSako on Nov 7, 2023 19:33:19 GMT -5
Here's a rather easy to read primer on plant viruses if anybody is interested in learning more:
That was a good read, thanks! Those leaves look like they're sick from the inside. And the sickness starts (or shows itself) at a certain point of growth. Does not look environmental. I've had houseplants do exactly the same thing with their leaves and they are goners, no way to save them. The primer on plant viruses is a keeper. Very much emphasizes using clean (sterilized) tools. This is just like when we have cold or flu: Keep surfaces clean so you don't pass the virus to someone else. I use alcohol swabs on the tools, small ones you'd use for little cuts. I am SO SAD those beautiful little plants got sick! |
|
pfunnyjoy
AGA Bounty
Made more grow room in my office!
Posts: 791
|
Post by pfunnyjoy on Nov 7, 2023 20:32:09 GMT -5
That was a good read, thanks! Those leaves look like they're sick from the inside. And the sickness starts (or shows itself) at a certain point of growth. Does not look environmental. I've had houseplants do exactly the same thing with their leaves and they are goners, no way to save them. The primer on plant viruses is a keeper. Very much emphasizes using clean (sterilized) tools. This is just like when we have cold or flu: Keep surfaces clean so you don't pass the virus to someone else. I use alcohol swabs on the tools, small ones you'd use for little cuts. I am SO SAD those beautiful little plants got sick! I can tell you that after I cut those off, I washed my hands, then used alcohol wipes on: the snippers, the table, my phone, the alcohol wipes container, basically everything I touched after handling those leaves. I'm sad too, as the Tatsoi seemed to be doing so well. But I haven't given up hope yet. And if this garden is a goner, well, Tatsoi grows fast, I'll try again. I've got brand new nutrients on order (GH MaxiGro) and I won't plant any new gardens until that arrives. |
|
pfunnyjoy
AGA Bounty
Made more grow room in my office!
Posts: 791
|
Post by pfunnyjoy on Nov 8, 2023 0:21:55 GMT -5
One other thought I had tonight, if it is some form of downy mildew (and apparently, there are many), I may have brought it inside myself.
We had a volunteer Dickinson pumpkin vine outside, and mid-October, about 2 weeks before disaster struck my plants, I brought eight pumpkins (5 large, 3 small) inside before frost could get them.
In my defense, I rinsed each off outside as best as I could with the hose, because there was a fair amount of damp dirt stuck to them where they contacted the ground. And slugs and bugs, ugh!
I carried each one through the front door and straight to my kitchen sink where it was THOROUGHLY WASHED and DRIED! Then I set each pumpkin down on towels on the living room floor. They have since been moved to the garage downstairs for cold storage.
Still, I probably wasn't being overly careful with my hands or what I touched inside after I was done with them. But my hands should have been clean after all the soap and water.
As it was a volunteer vine, I wasn't looking for plant diseases on it. It got watered from overhead when I did the lawn and I was grateful that it was shading weeds out all summer. But with the rain and cool weather of fall, I suspect it would have been a prime candidate for getting downy mildew!
So I'm not ruling out downy mildew. If it is that, I'm feeling doomed. Apparently it spreads through the air via spores.
Well, I ordered a new PH kit, so I can at least confirm what the 15-year-old one says (or not). I also ordered a bag of GH MaxiGro, as I want to rule out old nutrients. I won't plant any of my new Baker Creek seeds until that arrives.
|
|
pfunnyjoy
AGA Bounty
Made more grow room in my office!
Posts: 791
|
Post by pfunnyjoy on Nov 8, 2023 14:33:09 GMT -5
No new spots today. That's all. Lifted the grow deck for a peek, roots are light colored. Fingers crossed.
|
|
|
|
Post by lynnee on Nov 8, 2023 19:44:28 GMT -5
Just let them grow, and see what happens. It's probably not Downy Mildew, if you don't have fuzzy white stuff.  |
|
pfunnyjoy
AGA Bounty
Made more grow room in my office!
Posts: 791
|
Post by pfunnyjoy on Nov 8, 2023 20:46:54 GMT -5
Just let them grow, and see what happens. It's probably not Downy Mildew, if you don't have fuzzy white stuff.  I hope not, because apparently it spreads via airborne spores. Which would be rather difficult to eradicate! |
|
pfunnyjoy
AGA Bounty
Made more grow room in my office!
Posts: 791
|
Post by pfunnyjoy on Nov 12, 2023 20:12:38 GMT -5
Just wanted to let everyone know, but I believe I've saved my last two Tatsoi plants!
Both ARE growing! I harvested quite a bit from the larger right-hand plant last night, and even 4 leaves from the left-hand plant for a total of 44g of greens to eat with dinner.
Seems PH was the issue, so I plan to proceed using PH Down on filtered tap water when I water, and possibly add a tiny amount of PH Down when I mix nutrients. The GH Flora series lowers my tap water to PH of 6.5 using a 1-1-1 mix (tsp/gallon).
I'm using GH MaxiGro in the "south 40" Tatsoi garden I started on the 10th, and that lowers filtered tap water PH to 6.0, with only a 1/2 tsp per gallon (starting nutrients)! I'm not sure what will happen when I go to a stronger mix, that's wait and see! No gardens are ready for that yet. Anyway, it'll be interesting to see if there are any notable differences.
MaxiGro is for sure easier to mix.
Further posts about the Tatsoi will be under my personal garden thread.
|
|
|
|
Post by lynnee on Nov 13, 2023 17:31:20 GMT -5
The tatsoi sure do look wonderfully healthy now!  |
|
pfunnyjoy
AGA Bounty
Made more grow room in my office!
Posts: 791
|
Post by pfunnyjoy on Nov 13, 2023 21:02:48 GMT -5
I know, it's crazy, considering how pitiful the first garden got before I pulled the plug. I'm thankful I caught these before they got that far.
Harvested again this morning, I'll have to take a picture, but tired tonight. The plants are much more even now, and I lowered the light temporarily. I have to say, I really am enjoying these greens! They are good raw or cooked. I may have to always have a garden growing these because they are pretty to look at and have a neat growing habit.
|
|
pfunnyjoy
AGA Bounty
Made more grow room in my office!
Posts: 791
|
Post by pfunnyjoy on Nov 17, 2023 12:59:25 GMT -5
Tatsoi seems to be touchy about PH!
I found blotches on one of my two plants this AM. I had done a rinse and refill only yesterday, with fresh GH Flora series nutes and a PH of 6.0 tested a half hour or so after mixing.
The PH was 7.0 this AM! I was not expecting that!
And the downstairs Tatsoi, only started a few days back, with GH MaxiGro (and yes, that also tested at PH 6.0 a half hour or so after mixing), was ALSO up to PH 7.0 this AM, though the sprouts weren't showing any damages.
Both have had some PH Down added, I'll test them again later.
Picture in my personal garden log thread.
|
|
tdse
AGA Sprout
Posts: 122
|
Post by tdse on Nov 17, 2023 14:36:11 GMT -5
Tatsoi seems to be touchy about PH! I found blotches on one of my two plants this AM. I had done a rinse and refill only yesterday, with fresh GH Flora series nutes and a PH of 6.0 tested a half hour or so after mixing. The PH was 7.0 this AM! I was not expecting that! And the downstairs Tatsoi, only started a few days back, with GH MaxiGro (and yes, that also tested at PH 6.0 a half hour or so after mixing), was ALSO up to PH 7.0 this AM, though the sprouts weren't showing any damages. Both have had some PH Down added, I'll test them again later. Picture in my personal garden log thread. Just fyi - Tatsoi is one of the odd ones that thrives at a higher pH. My understanding is that it does best at 7.0. Mine definitely seems to not do as well when it drops below 7. |
|
pfunnyjoy
AGA Bounty
Made more grow room in my office!
Posts: 791
|
Post by pfunnyjoy on Nov 17, 2023 19:32:37 GMT -5
That is interesting, as my Tatsoi does NOT seem to like higher PH! It acts like a canary in a coal mine about it! A whole garden of it died when the PH got to 8.0!  And the PH on this garden had risen to 8.0 previously and spots developed on some 7 leaves. Dropping PH, the garden started to grow again ... and no further leaf spots until today, when the PH had risen. I can't ignore it, after the one garden dying catastrophically! This is what I saw this AM. Spots on two leaves, which had not been there 12 hours before.  But you are correct, Google turns up values of 6.0-7.5 for hydroponic Tatsoi. So why the heck don't mine like higher PH? It would sure be easier if they did! Is it possible I need more nutrients to keep them happy at a higher PH level? They were running low prior to the rinse and refill. Even now, they are in the low range (EC 1.4/1.5), but I was hesitant to bump the nutrients up more, until I saw how the plants reacted. Maybe they need a combo of slightly higher PH and nutrients to thrive? |
|
