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Post by lynnee on Nov 1, 2023 14:35:46 GMT -5
pfunnyjoy, I'm still eyeing that gray thing alongside your gardens that looks it's maybe folded. If it's a window, it could well be the source of your problem. There are windows in my garden room that send a cold draft to the corner of the room where I've lost gardens due to leaves drying out. I only know that the draft is there, because the room used to be my office and I used to sit next to the corner at my computer workstation. It's a light but steady draft, and not something that you'd easily detect. If you recently had an outdoor weather change, then a draft from a closed window might be killing your lettuces. The solution would be to caulk the window or to place something around the AGs to block the draft. I've never used a Bounty-sized grow tent, but I've considered it seriously enough to buy one. FWIW, I don't bother with sterilizing, except for running the AGs through a Fast Wash dishwasher cycle after ending each garden. I've gotten pretty good at prying the grow decks apart! 
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pfunnyjoy
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Post by pfunnyjoy on Nov 1, 2023 18:26:08 GMT -5
pfunnyjoy , I'm still eyeing that gray thing alongside your gardens that looks it's maybe folded. If it's a window, it could well be the source of your problem. There are windows in my garden room that send a cold draft to the corner of the room where I've lost gardens due to leaves drying out. I only know that the draft is there, because the room used to be my office and I used to sit next to the corner at my computer workstation. It's a light but steady draft, and not something that you'd easily detect. If you recently had an outdoor weather change, then a draft from a closed window might be killing your lettuces. The solution would be to caulk the window or to place something around the AGs to block the draft. I've never used a Bounty-sized grow tent, but I've considered it seriously enough to buy one. FWIW, I don't bother with sterilizing, except for running the AGs through a Fast Wash dishwasher cycle after ending each garden. I've gotten pretty good at prying the grow decks apart!  The gray thing is some paperwork. I wouldn't rule out a tiny draft, it's an old house, but the known drafty window is in the bathroom, which is well down the hallway and not close to the plants. And I haven't dealt with it, because actually, a bit of dry air in there is a good thing, since we don't have any venting. My dishwasher is old, and it would be hard to fit the grow bowl in. Plus, I don't know that the older AGs were dishwasher safe! I'm pretty sure they weren't and that has been a new development in the past 15 years. This grow deck does not pry apart. It is screwed together. I've never opened it up, actually, though perhaps I should! |
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Shawn
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Post by Shawn on Nov 2, 2023 4:22:35 GMT -5
In all the years I have been AG'ing I have never cleaned my snippers.
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slw
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Post by slw on Nov 2, 2023 13:08:45 GMT -5
In all the years I have been AG'ing I have never cleaned my snippers. Hah, another rebel!! Mine get a rinse if they get sticky.  |
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pfunnyjoy
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Post by pfunnyjoy on Nov 2, 2023 18:36:39 GMT -5
And ... the mystery continues.
Water temp has been mentioned as a possible issue. Well, every time I checked, the temps felt cool, and actually on the chilly side in the Harvest Elite Slim.
This morning, I pulled the plug. The Rouge d'Hiver was the least affected lettuce, and I used a kitchen scissors, now in the dishwasher, to harvest what leaves I could.
But when I started pulling out the plants, I noticed the water was WARM to the touch! And I have no idea why.
The house was 65F/60% humidity as it rained last night) when I woke, I bumped the thermostat to 67, but that hardly seems like it would warm up the AG water to where it felt warm to the touch. All floor heat vents are at least 12 feet away from the gardens. Air coming through the air purifier below the counter is cool, i.e. house temp.
The roots looked a little discolored, slightly tan/brown, which they hadn't before, but were not stinky, slimy, or mushy feeling. So, was that root rot? Or just the roots taking some of the color of the nutrient water?
I think maybe I should get a thermometer for checking water temps. And maybe one to sit alongside the gardens to monitor air temp right next to them. (I already have an old one of those downstairs, next to the Bounty.)
At this point, I think I have to try again on the kitchen counter, but with ONE garden. I'd like to figure out if it is the location or not.
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Post by lynnee on Nov 3, 2023 18:17:38 GMT -5
pfunnyjoy, root rot presents as sudden, almost overnight, leaf death and dark brown, mushy roots. Light brown roots are okay--my tomatoes and peppers all get light brown roots and continue producing for quite a while. All of my AGs have warm water, which is okay as long as the room air temperature doesn't get too warm. Even if the room gets hot, the plants get by for quite a while. scarfguy's original suggestion about a virus may be the correct one. That would square with your tatsoi doing so well up to the first harvest. I can't remember whether you are using supplements or hydrogen peroxide, but I would use AG nutes only in replanting, until I figured out the mystery.
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pfunnyjoy
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Post by pfunnyjoy on Nov 5, 2023 13:32:50 GMT -5
pfunnyjoy , root rot presents as sudden, almost overnight, leaf death and dark brown, mushy roots. Light brown roots are okay--my tomatoes and peppers all get light brown roots and continue producing for quite a while. All of my AGs have warm water, which is okay as long as the room air temperature doesn't get too warm. Even if the room gets hot, the plants get by for quite a while. scarfguy 's original suggestion about a virus may be the correct one. That would square with your tatsoi doing so well up to the first harvest. I can't remember whether you are using supplements or hydrogen peroxide, but I would use AG nutes only in replanting, until I figured out the mystery. OK, then I don't think it was root rot. Virus is still a possibility. But maybe not the only one. WHAT ABOUT MY WATER?Today, on the very oldest leaves on the office Tatsoi across the house (which has not been harvested AT ALL), I'm seeing the same symptoms. I checked the water temperature with hubby's meat thermometer (after sanitizing) and it is just below 69F, which should be fine. House was set to 64 overnight. Room is small, door is kept closed. Not under a heating vent, that's under the desk where my PC is. Is under a window, but the temps have been in the upper 40F outside. Same GH Flora series nutrients. Garden is ONE MONTH OLD TODAY. BUT! BREAKING NEWS! In digging around my old AG stuff, I found a bottle of General Hydroponics PH tester and the little vial. And I tested the water from the office AG and the PH was in the 8.0 range! Which, I'm pretty sure, is TOO DARN HIGH! I checked our tap water which was in the 8.5 and higher range. And then I tested our water from the Big Berkey filter, that was 8.0 range. And then I checked a jug of store-bought distilled water, which was 6.0 range. So I think the test drops are working, in spite of their age. I do also have 15 year old GH PH Up and PH Down. I've long since forgotten how to use, but hopefully the bottles will have adequate instruction. It may be that the PH buffering by the nutrients (both AG and GH is not quite enough. And every time I added water, I was probably raising the PH in each garden. Does that sound like it could have caused the problems? |
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Post by scarfguy on Nov 5, 2023 13:43:04 GMT -5
Yes, pH could definitely be a problem.
My tap water is above 9 AND has a lot of chlorine in it. I run all of my water through a reverse osmosis filter and adjust the pH to 6.1.- 6.3. I also add 3 ml / gallon of hydrogen peroxide to inhibit algae formation in the stored water bottles before I can use them. I make about 8 gallons of water twice a week. It takes a lot of time but the plants really grow a lot better with very few problems when given pure, clean water.
ALSO, I've been wondering about your nutes as I think you said they were old also. I would get fresh bottles of nutes and pH UP and pH down and some new test strips.
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pfunnyjoy
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Post by pfunnyjoy on Nov 5, 2023 14:28:35 GMT -5
Yes, pH could definitely be a problem.
My tap water is above 9 AND has a lot of chlorine in it. I run all of my water through a reverse osmosis filter and adjust the pH to 6.1.- 6.3. I also add 3 ml / gallon of hydrogen peroxide to inhibit algae formation in the stored water bottles before I can use them. I make about 8 gallons of water twice a week. It takes a lot of time but the plants really grow a lot better with very few problems when given pure, clean water.
ALSO, I've been wondering about your nutes as I think you said they were old also. I would get fresh bottles of nutes and pH UP and pH down and some new test strips.
Yes, although supposedly they are still good, I'm thinking maybe fresh nutes as well. And a new PH kit. I did add 1ml to the gallon of water I filled my AG jug with yesterday, tested after waiting a half hour, PH down to 6.5. I'm about to test my nutrient mix, adjust if necessary, then try a rinse/refill in hopes of saving these plants. |
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pfunnyjoy
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Post by pfunnyjoy on Nov 5, 2023 14:37:03 GMT -5
Just tested my nutrient mix and it is 6.5. So the GH Flora nutes do seem to be buffering the PH as they should.
So I'm thinking that the increase of PH over time is what is doing my plants in at about the 4 week mark.
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Post by scarfguy on Nov 5, 2023 15:09:33 GMT -5
Your theory makes a lot of sense. Your nutes lowered your tap water to an acceptable level but the daily addition of topping off with high alkaline tap water would eventually raise the pH to a damaging level.
I'll buy that explanation.  |
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pfunnyjoy
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Post by pfunnyjoy on Nov 5, 2023 15:09:34 GMT -5
I've done the rinse and refill, only this time, rinsing with the filtered tap water adjusted to 6.5.
Now it's wait and see. Rinse and refill didn't save things the last time, but the plants may have been damaged past repairing.
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Post by lynnee on Nov 5, 2023 19:55:31 GMT -5
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Post by lynnee on Nov 5, 2023 21:01:09 GMT -5
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Post by scarfguy on Nov 5, 2023 21:20:19 GMT -5
If you want to spend a little more, I've found this meter to be of very good quality for the price.
(besides, the color tests don't work for me cause I'm colorblind)
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pfunnyjoy
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Post by pfunnyjoy on Nov 6, 2023 0:27:26 GMT -5
That's exactly the same PH kit as what I have other than that my kit is the 2009 version, LOL! |
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pfunnyjoy
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Post by pfunnyjoy on Nov 6, 2023 0:36:26 GMT -5
Thanks! I'm also wondering if I should get some hard water test strips. I know we have somewhat hard water, but I don't know the degree. I noticed that GH has a version of Flora Micro for hard water, maybe I need that? |
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Post by lynnee on Nov 6, 2023 14:44:15 GMT -5
I'm also wondering if I should get some hard water test strips. I know we have somewhat hard water, but I don't know the degree. I noticed that GH has a version of Flora Micro for hard water, maybe I need that? Can't hurt! I have no personal experience, but like all the GH products.  |
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pfunnyjoy
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Post by pfunnyjoy on Nov 6, 2023 16:02:24 GMT -5
I'm also wondering if I should get some hard water test strips. I know we have somewhat hard water, but I don't know the degree. I noticed that GH has a version of Flora Micro for hard water, maybe I need that? Can't hurt! I have no personal experience, but like all the GH products.  If my water isn't quite hard enough to justify the Flora Micro Hard Water, GH says it can be mixed with regular Micro. Does add another variable. I think I'll try the hard water test strips first. This is the oldest leaf from the left-hand plant, which was worst affected.  The right hand plant still looks OK. It only had one leaf starting to be affected. Which I have cut off and you can see the top here:  and bottom side:  Today, the left-hand plant might be slightly worse off, but it did not go downhill like the first Tatsoi garden did after a rinse/refill. There are 7 leaves with signs of damage, so the damage has progressed some, because previously, I'd cut off the damaged leaves. The plant doesn't look beyond recovery, and nothing is drooping. I can only wait and see. The right-hand plant looks good. The water level had dropped, so at least one plant is drinking. I figure that's a good sign. |
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Post by scarfguy on Nov 6, 2023 16:35:14 GMT -5
Hmmm... Those images look like a fungal disease. What do you think, lynnee? |
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